Collection Quests

Forums: Index > Planning Forum > Collection Quests

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Initial Discussion Edit

Let's centralize some discussions here regarding collection quests and their representation at the wiki.-- Kodia 21:47, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Question: Does or does not the Nurwin quest: a) Consist of pages and b) Reward a book?

Melf 22:44, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Yes, it consists of page-appearance nodes. No, it does not reward a "book" in the traditional sense that the Tome types do, it rewards a recipe book (which is something else altogether). However, I think the crux of the issue was c) Is the in-game prefix (or "Category") Tome, or is the Tradeskill? The answer to that is Tradeskill, which is why it should not get the Tome CQ type categorization since here on EQ2i the "CQ Type" categories are only based on the Prefix (called category now by SOE, I think, since the quest journal collection page revision).

On the other hand, I support the idea of having categorization on how the node appears when you go to harvest it. I think the template is somewhat restrictive in that sense and needs improvement -- adding automatic categorization (to a new set of categories, Node Types for example). The current type is too restrictive, especially given how fast SOE is adding more types since it is a 'locked' template. -- lordebon 22:57, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

When I originally started the Category "Tome (CQ Type)" I intended it to be for all collections composed of pages harvsted from "page nodes". My reasoning was simple: Tome Collections don't award experience anywhere near what traditional collections do. Also, the fact that some of the pages were not found by "page nodes", but instead were drops or clickable items, causing them to be gathered by means other than just the Collecting ability. And finally, alot of people donm't like them - mostly because they don't award much in the way of experience. As such, no where in it did was it decided thay had to have the prefix/category of Tome - that was just a coincidence at the time (and made for sorting them in Excel all the more easier). Because of this, the collections of the Kunark language books, and the Nurwin Family Secrets book still fall under the heading of Tome (CQ Type)

Melf 23:13, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

I disagree. You may have originally made that category, but the ALL of the (CQ Type) categories now use them for *prefixes* not for what the node looks like. Therefore they do not fall under that category. You may have made the category for a certain reason, but the fact is the template does not support that position. I've started a new category, Category:Page Collections , to describe what your original intentions were. -- lordebon 23:32, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

So, I suppose we'll then be starting a totally new category page for each "type" of collection quest? Ants, Artifacts, Ahket, etc. You see? Your way makes no sense. Because there are so many Tom: prefixed collections? Theres alot of Kunark ones. And Shadow Odyssey ones. That is why the Tome CQ distinction was started, as I stated above - for ease of use.

Nothing like micromanagers to come in and muddy up a perfectly good system. Never mind. I'll let you have your little kingdom and go fond another website that appreciates hard work, and won't have someone show up WAAAAAY after the fact and start telling me how THEY are going to do it. I get enough of that idiocy at work. It bugs me that I put so much work into this only to have someone show up and start throwing their weight around and cause issues. Good luck. I'm out of here.

With regrets to all, Farewell - Melf 23:53, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

I'd like to encourage you to reconsider. You provide a lot of very good edits on the wiki and have started us down some great paths that we've needed desperately. But if you feel the need to part, we wish you well on your journey through Norrath.-- Kodia 04:08, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

There is already a Category page for each prefix -- it's nothing that I've "started." So my way that "makes no sense" is the way that the TEMPLATE that is LOCKED that I did not create does it. You made a great deal of good edits, but all I was doing was trying to show you that the template automatically categorizes those into those (CQ Type) categories by prefix. Sorry if you're leaving, but don't shoot the messenger. The system has been this way for quite some time now, and it was not my work. -- lordebon 00:01, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Suggestion

The template is not supporting the categories soe shows ingame, which you can sort your collections by too ( Sort by Category )

I took a look into my collection window ingame and the Plain Beetle collection shows in the second line Category: Bettle

Note: Beetle: plain beetle collection is called Plain Beetle collection ingame

I think that feature got added recently and i think the template is just missing that input by the look of it.

Example 1

Runnyeye: The Gathering: Dirty Dingy Pages is actually called Dirty Dingy Pages ingame and with Category:Runnyeye: The Gathering in the second line.

So the it should have Category:Runnyeye: The Gathering (CQ Type) as category only.

Example 2

Kunark: A Mysterious Red Tome is called A Mysterious Red Tome ingame with Category:Kunark in the second line.

So the it should have Category:Kunark (CQ Type) as category only.

I wouldn't add category:tome or Category:Page Collections to those collections because it's missleading and not displaying the ingame information.

A possibitly is to add collections that have as reward a Tome to Category:Tome Collection Rewards .

By a closer look of it the parameter prefix is missleading at most, it addes pages to [[Category:{{{prefix}}} (CQ Type)]], while it's more a (CQ Category) then a type ingame.

-- Chillispike 00:46, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Part of the problem is that SOE can't make up their damned minds with the collections. The template *did* support collections exactly as they appeared in game. Then SOE tried to get creative on us and we all see how that's messed with our system. Would you like me to try and find the time this weekend to make the change or would you like me to unlock the template for the problems to be corrected (I'm just working on some other things right now and don't have the time to do it tonight).-- Kodia 04:08, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

I can take care of the template, but before i do it i have 2 questions to avoid missunderstandings.

Q1 : change the parameter prefix to category to match the ingame look?

Q2 : change the wiki categories from [[Category:{{{prefix}}} (CQ Type)]] to [[Category:{{{category}}} (CQ Category)]]?

Since SOE changed the most collection names the collections need some sort of audit, to make sure all collections match the ingame name.

-- Chillispike 12:31, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

We want the wiki categories to look like what appears in game. If a quest appears (using the standard interface) as "Dirty Dingy Pages" then a user searching on exactly that title should be able to find the quest. The remainder of the information that SOE provides is pure categorization. The word "Category" isn't a way to identify the name of the quest, but to identify the type. That is, it isn't part of the subtitle in my opinion, but a modifier that clarifies the type of collection. If the game displays:

Dirty Dingy Pages

With a category beneath it of:

Category: Runnyeye: The Gathering

Then the article's name is "Dirty Dingy Pages" (obviously), and the category in which the collection should reside is "Category: Runnyeye:The Gathering (CQ Type)". As for quests that result in a book/tome/houseitem, the category would remain whatever appeared underneath the name of the collection. An additional category could and most certainly should be added that indicates a house placeable item is the reward, but should we distinguish between books and other house placeable items? I think yes. Should it be part of the template? Maybe, but it doesn't have to be.

Does that answer your questions? I'm still waking up and on my first cuppa. Let me know, especially if you think I've misunderstood or if you have a differing opinion. This should be a consensus decision that keeps quests aligned with our existing policies. -- Kodia 14:11, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, before they changed it pages used to match the name *exactly*. But when they split off the category, they broke that matching for us. Changing "prefix" to "category" and "CQ Type" to "CQ Category" are just cosmetic changes -- it's still categorizing them by the category (only we called it a CQ Type before, for lack of having a better word). I agree with you Kodia on needing to move them to match now. I suggest that when we do it, we leave the old redirects.

Template wise, I've suggested a lot of improvements to it, but I couldn't actually do anything because it was locked. I'd be for unlocking it once we have a consensus on how we'd like to change it. Once we get it whipped into shape it could be relocked to prevent vandalism. What Melf was talking about was categorizing them based on the color / appearance of the node, and that can easily be done via the current shinie type switch (which is one thing that needs major improvement since it doesn't allow for some options and can make things somewhat confusing -- see the Kunark language tomes for example). -- lordebon 15:03, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Agreed on all counts, including the redirects and the additional categorization that Melf was looking for. The template is currently unprotected for 1 week starting today. Let's wait three days for commentary, putting us at a change date start of this coming Tuesday afternoon unless major disagreements appear. If no action is taken, the template will automatically reprotect itself one week from this morning.-- Kodia 15:11, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Here's a thought... Can Uberfuzzy's Bot crawl through a category and make automatic redirects? For example, craw through Category:Tome (CQ Type) and move all the pages inside that from {{NAMESPACE}}:{{PAGENAME}} to just {{PAGENAME}} while leaving a redirect? That would make it pretty trivial to get all the moves done, since the wiki software considers the stuff before the colon the namespace for those. -- lordebon 15:24, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

I tryed to create a wanted / possible change list:

1. the parameter prefix should get changed to category to match the ingame look and to avoid confussion?
2. should or should not the categories moved from (CQ Type) to (CQ Category)?
3. Since the ingame default ui shows a category should there be a line between Collection Name and Recommended Level with Collection Category ?
4. Recommended Level rename to Level ? i think they have a fix level and don't scale with player level up to some point like Lang quests?

possible other changes:

1. Possible new categories: Collection that reward with {{{rewardtype}}} Items , rewardtype chould be Fabled, Legendary, Treasured, House.

-- Chillispike 16:24, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Correct, collections have a fixed level. As for moving all the cats... it's cosmetic, and so to me optional. -- lordebon 17:07, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Changed Recommended Level to Level . -- Chillispike 19:17, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

If the pzone get's cleared up, the categories could get moved too (even cosmetic), since every collection needs to be checked. -- Chillispike 03:35, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Well, the categories are handled by the template. If we change the template, we move the categories but the individual pages don't need to be changed for that since it's all handled by the template. But I think with the number of changes that we're planning we might want to add a temporary audit parameter... that automatically categorizes them all into something like Category:Collections Needing to be Audited for easy tracking. That way we can easily keep track of the conversion to zones as well as the fixing of the type (Red shinie, blue, etc.). -- lordebon 14:41, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

If prefix' get's changed to category a markup fix for the collection is needed.

If (CQ Type) get's changed to (CQ Category) it takes a day to effect all pages unless you save them by your self

So .. let's do it ;)

Audits normaly take place at articlename/Audit for this case i would suggest Category:Collection Quests/Audit and we list every collection quest and do it like:

• Dirty Dingy Pages -

and

• Dirty Dingy Pages - done

- Chillispike 10:10, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Doable, although I still think just having a hidden category triggered by an audit parameter in the template is simpler. Thats what we used with the AAs... basically you'd set audit=done once you've fixed up the page and then it removes it from the needing-audit category. That way we don't have to keep editing a page, the wiki does it for us. -- lordebon 12:07, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Collection zones Edit

Ah, another thought. This means I can finally clean up that pzone mess, since most shinies don't have a single primary. Anyone have a problem with me dropping pzone and simply categorizing by all zones? (IE Spines:_Basilisk_Spines would be categorized into TT, BS, and Bonemire collection categories, not just the one for Bonemire). That has always bugged me, since what zone we chose to be "primary" had no real backing in-game. Then all the Collection Quests will actually list which collections you can find in the zone... not just some or none depending on whether the article author labled them as the "Primary". -- lordebon 19:35, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

I saw that on the talk page yeah

suggestion a subtemplate maybe Template:czone with {{#if: {{{1|}}}|[[Category:{{{1}}} Collection Quests]]{{TestLinks|linktemp=|pagename={{{1}}}|link=Collection Quests|purpose=|generic=}}|''parameter missing''}} to added them to all the zones

-- Chillispike 19:47, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

If Zone(s)/Primary get's changed to Zone(s) the pzone parameter could get removed and only czones with the template get's used.

-- Chillispike 19:49, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, pzone could be dropped entirely. And thanks to my friend the {{#explode|string|delim|num}} (explode parser function) I can do it all in one parameter. -- lordebon 20:21, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Like this?

• {{#explode:Runnyeye/Antonica|/|0}}
  • Runnyeye
• {{#explode:Runnyeye/Antonica|/|1}}
  • Antonica
• {{#explode:Runnyeye/Antonica/The Commonlands|/|2}}
  • The Commonlands

Hmm can do but for how many zones? 10 czones? that would limit it again :( rather use a template for the czones like we use it for the equip template to keep it flexible
-- Chillispike 10:01, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

The thing I don't like about the template is you shouldn't have to use a subtemplate inside the call for a template. Because then it's easy for users to forget / mess up (notice how many articles don't use the AllCats for classes?). I'd rather go with czone1, czone2, czone3 (ie separate parameters in the master template) to keep it simple in that event, and then call the subtemplate from within the code of the main template, ie {{czones|{{{czone1|}}}}} . -- lordebon 12:07, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

a parameter for each zone would still limit it to amount of parameters, even a subtemplate can cause problems it don't see a huge problem there since the there are only 200 collections.

I would guess 50%+ of the collections are in 1 single zone only so i would really suggest the following:

czone if a collection is only 1 zone

czones if a collection is in multiple zones (Like spell's with mutliple effects get handled.

-- Chillispike 12:18, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

The following code would make sure that there is at least a zone entered.

{{#if: {{{czones|}}}|{{{czones}}}|{{#if: {{{zone|}}}|[[Category:{{{czone}}} Collection Quests|{{{czone}}}]]|[[Category:Collection missing zone]]}}}}

-- Chillispike 12:32, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Possible/Chilli's current Changelog Edit

1. Parameter change: pzone to czone
   • parameter czone is for collections that come only in 1 zone
2. Parameter change: czones
   • The input of parameter czones is now= {{czone|zonename 1}}, {{czone|zonename 1}}
   • The parameter overwrites czone
   • This parameter is needed for collection that come from multible zones
   • If czone and czones are used at the same time the collection get's added to Category:Collection with invalid zone call
3. Parameter change: prefix to category
   • category is shown ingame under the category name
4. Category change:
   • Instead of prefix (CQ Type) collections get added to category (CQ Category)
5. New parameter: rewardtype
   • only valid input: Fabled, Legendary, Treasured, House
   • With that parameter collections get added to Collection that reward with {{{rewardtype}}} Items
6. Table look change:
   • Instead of Zone(s)/Primary now either
     • Zone ( Patch ) when czones didn't got used
     • Zones ( Patch ) If czones got used
   • New line for reward type
     • Collection reward: and rewardtype Items

Those changes got made atm only at User:Chillispike/DevTemplate and can be viewed at User:Chillispike/Sandbox‎
-- Chillispike 16:01, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Any disagree with the changes i prepared? -- Chillispike 08:33, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

None by me so far, although I think the documentation needs some further explanation of when to use one parameter over another.-- Kodia 13:40, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

docu updated. -- Chillispike 14:10, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

No complaints here, although once you make those changes I need to get to cleaning up the type code (It's the week before Finals, so I've been somewhat preoccupied). Any chance you could extend the unprotect through next week, Kodia? -- lordebon 14:17, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

I added the following to the template and to the changelog

If czone and czones are used at the same time the collection get's added to Category:Collection with invalid zone call

-- Chillispike 14:25, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

I'll extend the protection for a week beyond what it's set at. Let me know if that's not enough time.-- Kodia 16:29, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

That should be enough, next week I should have the time to get it done =) Thanks! -- lordebon 17:00, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Should i update the Template then, or do you wanna make the cleaning of the type code in my DevTemplate ? -- Chillispike 17:05, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Template update done , Preload updated too -- Chillispike 13:14, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Reward type Coin added for collections that reward you only with Coin and with no item -- Chillispike 13:34, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

I changed the (Patch) to be italic to be in line with the Quest, Zone and so on templates. -- Chillispike 20:20, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Chilli's Template: Hidden (purple) Edit

Just looking at Chilli's template, and I noticed there is still no type specifying the hidden purple glowies found in Sinking Sands with the Excavation Helmet or Toggery's Tinkered Excavation whatever . Janze-Nek 17:15, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

I can add that if you like. -- Chillispike 17:20, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

I would like that, I really, really would. Purples are NOT blues or reds - they are found with completely different equipment. Janze-Nek 17:29, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Done, i named it HP ... Hidden purple.

only a image would be missing, i named it image:hidden_shiny_Excavation.jpg -- Chillispike 23:43, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, that's the part of the template I'm going to revamp next week (too busy with end-of-term class stuff this week). -- lordebon 00:04, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Uploaded the image. Thank you, thank you, thank you, Chilli. Janze-Nek 06:44, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

no prob :) -- Chillispike 10:45, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

reward type Edit

there are some collections that have no reward just experience, and some that only reward coin. what about those? or will they just tell that the reward type is missing? -- Vraeth 13:36, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

coin for coin-only, and I've added "none" as a valid parameter for those collections that have no money/item reward. -- lordebon 13:40, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

2 more:

Illusion - For items that give you an illusion

Collection - For items needed for other collections, Like butterfly

-- Chillispike 21:54, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Mass delete needed Edit

Category:Collection Quests by Type includeing all subcategories need a massdelete due the template update and the move of the collections from (CQ Type) to (CQ Category)
-- Chillispike 15:05, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Gotcha. I'll see what I can arrange. It might take a bit.-- Kodia 15:21, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Just a mass delete? or do they need recreated/moved? -- Uberfuzzy 18:31, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

I would recreate them to make sure they match ingame. -- Chillispike 18:34, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Some things still hiding down in there http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Special:CategoryTree/Collection_Quests_by_Type?mode=all

Well, actually it's really a "move"... from Blah (CQ Type) to Blah (CQ Category). And the ones still hiding in the CQ types aren't there if you look at the individual pages -- the changes with the template just haven't propagated to the categories yet, they're probably still in the queue. -- lordebon 19:00, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Impossibly Rare Objects Edit

though these are purple, visible without any extra equipment like the Excavation Helmet , so maybe it needs either its own cqtype, or just need to decide which cqtype it fits in. -- Vraeth 12:16, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Hmm. That's a good point. These are going to go away once the live event is over though. I wonder if that matters for this.-- Kodia 14:37, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

That's something I plan to address when I fix that section of the template, so stay tuned for now. -- lordebon 16:00, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Ta-Da, take a look at it now. -- lordebon 19:15, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

nice, looks good :) -- Vraeth 19:59, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Collections of other collections Edit

what about collections of other collections, or rewards of other collections, like Butterfly collection. they arent actually ?'s or !'s on ground -- Vraeth 08:20, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

type= other is now available for you usage for odd cases like that where there's only one or two weird collections. Just set type=other (or type2 or type3 if needed) and then set other= what you want it to say after the bullet. IE other=Special: Reward from the plain , spotted , and spotted butterfly collections. The Behemoth tome one comes to mind as well as being able to use this (since most are collected pages, but the binder is acquired in a special way). -- lordebon 21:14, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

thanks :) -- Vraeth 22:18, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

*Mission Accomplished* Edit

See Talk:Collection Quests Timeline#Migration/Update Complete . Please put any new comments there. -- lordebon 18:41, 11 June 2009 (UTC).