Page renaming question

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(moving a conversation that was happening on Kodia's usertalk page here as it is generally applicable)...

Hi, I'm trying to work on the Troubador spell renaming and I'm not sure about a couple of things. In many cases the new name of the spell is the name of one of the previous spell names, and this presents a naming conundrum. For Sandra's Deafening Strike the spells used to be Deafening Strike, Deafening Blade, Deafening Thrust, Sandra's Deafening Strike, and so on. The new spells are (boringly) Sandra's Deafening Strike, Sandra's Deafening Strike II, and so on.

Please tell me if it is okay to do the following. I want to rename the Sandra's Deafening Strike page to Sandra's Deafening Strike IV, and then rename Deafening Strike to Sandra's Deafening Strike. I'm a little hesitant to do this because I'm not sure what happens when you rename a page to the name that another page used to have, I mean the redirect won't work, but in this case I don't care. So is that a valid thing to do or is there a better way? Thanks. --SapphoTroub 20:39, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

If another admin can comment.. :-) I wouldn't worry too much about breaking the redirects. We aren't maintaining the redirects for the old spell names anyway. Kodia has been deleting them periodically since GU52 went live. So I would recommend that you follow your suggested course of action, but when you do the rename, disable the checkbox so that a redirect page is not created. That way there will be no conflict between the old and new versions of Sandra's Deafening Strike. -- Sassinak 20:44, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Cool, thanks. And yes, any admin's advice is most welcome. I tried to find folks on IRC but nobody was around. -- SapphoTroub 21:00, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

IIRC, suppressing redirect creation is only allowed for rollback-level users or higher, so I'm not sure you'll be able to do it, SapphoTroub (if you do see the checkbox for it, by all means use it tho!). If that is the case, uou won't be able to move the new page over the old redirect since its not redirecting to that page, but if you tag it AfD and include that in your comment either an Admin can delete it (making room for you to move the new page) or if I am around I can move it out of the way without leaving a redirect, again letting you move it then. Either way there's probably going to be a wait, but it's whats necessary to maintain the page histories unfortunately. --lordebon 21:16, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, it was exactly as you thought. When I tried to move Deafening Strike -> Sandra's Deafening Strike I got this error: "The page could not be moved: a page of that name already exists, or the name you have chosen is not valid. Please choose another name, or ask an administrator to help you with the move. Please do not manually move the article by copying and pasting it; the page history must be moved along with the article text." I'll try to figure out how to tag the Sandra's Deafening Strike redirect.

Also is there a better place to have such discussions than one particular Admin's talk page? -- SapphoTroub 21:33, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

The forum (accessible from the main menu to the left under "Community") may be a good place to start a topic. Just post a link here with your topic and we can move the discussion there =) --lordebon 21:57, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

-- SapphoTroub 22:49, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

I created a template to flag such pages where you need help with moving

If you place {{Rename|new name and why if needed}} the page will be flaged for rename when you need help like that.

Idea is you flag a page with rename and someone someone who can suppress redirect moves the pages for you.

-- ( Talk ) 21:22, 28 August 2009 (UTC)