POLICY UPDATE DISCUSSION: Valid ZONE and POI name sources

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The current naming policy for zones and points of interest in game requires review. A conversation was started on the policy talk page but is being moved here for a centralized discussion.

Specifically, we need to discuss what the valid sources of information are for zones and points of interest that appear in game. At present, the policy states that the only valid source of information is the message that appears on the screen when a player enters a zone or area. Some additional information:

• Elements of the user interface were specifically not included as valid sources of names because of observed differences in the elements for various zones. At times, these differences were subtle, often resulting in the difference of only a single word (usually the word "The" at the beginning of the zone or area name). These elements may require being revisited and a specific statement made about which areas hold precedence when conflict appears.

• The quest journal was specifically excluded as a valid source of information on names because of the serious differences constantly observed between it and other elements of the game. It was also specifically excluded because of SOE's installation of multiple sorting methods of quests in the journal and rumored possible upgrades to the journal in the future. The quest journal still remains an invalid source of zone and POI names.

The Admins believe the following questions need to be answered:

1. Which game interface sources match 100% of the time with regard to zone and POI names? Especially important for consideration are:
   • the log files
   • the /who command
   • the name on the map when a zone has a map
   • the name in the compass
2. If the sources match 99% of the time, which items have precedence should a conflict be somehow introduced in the future?
3. What haven't we considered?

We would like to see if there is consensus on any changes within the next week.-- Kodia 18:22, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Discussion Edit

My responses regarding zone names:

1. The log file entry of the format "You have entered " and the /who command performed from within the zone are valid POI sources. The name on the map is not a valid source, and since I'm not 100% sure of it, I make no comment about the compass since I don't know where the information for that comes from.
2. The "You have entered " message from a log shall take precedence.
3. I don't think anything else zone-wise really needs to be considered, beyond perhaps noting that the map and quest journal are not valid sources for zone names.

Regarding location POIs... all we can do is use the yellow text that pops up on screen. To my knowledge, nothing else (ie in the logs) validly indicates a POI. The official map (ie not modded with EQ2MAP) has some 'points of interest' type locations, but to me the one and only valid source is the yellow text that comes up. -- lordebon 18:30, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

for POIs, when first time encountering them you will get a "You have discovered " message in the log file, which should be the same as the yellow text on screen -- Vraeth 23:28, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

True, although that's hard to rely on for verification since you only get it the first time per character, but still something that can be noted in the policy. I'd forgotten all about that, hehe. -- lordebon 23:47, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Agreed. "Should be" and "definitely are" are not the same. I hate to belabor the point, but until we get screenshot verification of the exact matches, the assumption is a bad one. We've seen too many instances to date where a simple word like "a", "an" or "the" or a simple capitalization makes all the difference.-- Kodia 00:01, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Sorry if my List is really long but i tryed to say the Pro and Con of each input.

Zone name

• UI mods in general
  • A ui that shows "GameData.Self.ZoneName" is valid
  • Like http://www.eq2interface.com/downloads/info4586-UberfuzzysCompasswithZoneRegion.html for example
  • There can be UI's that show the region name and not the zone name, so it's rather invalid
• Log file
  • You have entered zone name .
  • Player has killed mob name in zone name (x, y, z)
  • Player loots item from the Chest type of mob name in zone name (x, y, z).
  • /who command, shows players and the right zone name.
• onscreen message (white)
  • If you zone and you see a white on screen message which it the zone name
• onscreen message (yellow)
  • If you zone and you should see a yellow on screen message it is a POI
• Map window
  • Unsure if valid with the orignal ui, but since not all zones have a map supported by soe it's rather invalid and there are better options i think.
  • With a ui mob like eq2map for example it's not vaild either. Zones that use the same layout like other zones have often the wrong name showing like A Thexian Hideout that shows the parent zone as map name The Protector's Realm .
• Zone timers window
  • Unsure since not all zone have a timer
• Guild window
  • Invalid: I forgot which zones it where but sometimes the guild window doesn't show the actual zone name.
• Ui Tooltip's
  • unsure about them
• Quest Journal
  • Quest Journal sorted by category shows often a other name then the actual zone name, from a other point of view it could be vaild but then it still isn't.
    • Example the Quest Secret Spices
      • Category: The Moors of Ykesha - the name category name
      • Current zone: Moors of Ykesha - the zone name
    • Example the Quest Trail to the Past
      • Category: Heritage - the name category name
      • Current zone: Qeynos or Freeport - no actual zone name since you have to go to South Qeynos and North Freeport
  • The current zone information is depenting on the Quest and can show the wrong one.
  • therefore it's invalid

POI name

• Log file
  • You have discovered POI name .
• onscreen message (white)
  • Invalid since it's the zone name and not the Poi name
• onscreen message (yellow)
  • alid since it's the POI name
• Map window
  • Invalid, Poi information of custom ui's is entered by players.

Valid

• Zone name: Log line (game generated messages) and onscreen message (white)
• Poi name: Log line (game generated message) and onscreen message (yellow)

-- ( Talk ) 00:15, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

I agree that we need some confirmation. Maybe tomorrow I'll go around to a bunch of zones with names with The or similar in their names and verify they match. I have access to just about everywhere, so if you have any in particular you'd like me to check just let me know. -- lordebon 00:18, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Oh, one other thing we forgot. The message you get when placing the guild strategist banner cannot be trusted. Placing it in New Tunaria tells you that you put it in Felwithe. I checked both log and /who (in both places) and it was OK in there. -- lordebon 00:29, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

What's our status on this discussion? Were people able to do some in-game searching on these items? (I have to confess, I haven't, due to recent dental surgery and the subsequent drugged state of my brain, which isn't conducive to wiki editing.)-- Kodia 14:19, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Is the Revive window valid? -- ( Talk ) 11:24, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

It hasn't been in the past at all. From where does it draw its information?-- Kodia 13:24, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

I saw on testserver that is can show a wrong information, Revive window and the resulting line in the log (which is just a copy past).

Each Revive point has his full name on his own.

So the revive information is not {Zonename} + {revive point}, it's actually just {Revive point}.

Which leads to the fact: revive information is invalid for zonename.

Log line is valid as long s it's not a revive line.

-- ( Talk ) 14:40, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, revive windows are not valid sources... they're individually named and don't actually draw on the zone name (besides, not all zones have revive points inside the zone). -- lordebon 21:39, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

The white onscreen message isn't 100% right allways. The onscreen message shows you last zone info, poi info m and quest updates. If you had really many quest updates and zone twice fast then the onscreen message will show the last zone before the current zone.
Since that hardly happens the onscreen message is valid if you don't had other information pending in the background like quest updates to get shown.
-- ( Talk ) 09:08, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Well, it's still correct/valid, it's just delayed because there's a queue of them. Yeah its possible someone could get confused, but the information is still right, you just have to wait and get the most-recent one. -- lordebon 11:17, 28 April 2009 (UTC)